Heh - now KINDRED/32 RED closing accounts!

**FictionNet** · 30 January 2020, 10:52 am

This one wasn't unexpected, as I reduced their coverage when they dropped our commission to 10%. What did they expect would happen? Promote them more? Heh. Another crappy brand bites the dust. Clearing out the junk. Oh, they ARE stealing money, btw, as this account generates money from previous sign-ups. I love that they leave me with 'kind regards'

---
Important Information Regarding Your Affiliate Account

Dear Affiliate,

On March 21st 2018, we updated our Terms & Conditions which included the following clause:

13.2. The Company may terminate this Agreement immediately by written notice if:

5. If the Affiliate does not generate any New Depositing Customers for a period of 6 months, except in markets where affiliate activity is restricted (e.g. Netherlands)

This clause came into effect on the day of the email, March 21st 2018, with the necessary 6-month consecutive period having now passed and you have failed to generate any New Depositing Customers.

As such and in accordance with our program Terms & Conditions, we are now terminating our affiliate partnership on 01/02/2020. If you have an under limit commission balance, or earn any commission between 1st January - 31st January, this will be paid as part of next month’s commission process and you should expect to receive these funds towards the end of February 2020.

Please note, you may have more than one account with us, and this email is in relation, specifically, to Affiliate ID: xxx - This does not affect any of your other active accounts!

If you have any question, please relay them to your affiliate manager Tim, at [email protected]

Kind Regards,
Your Kindred Affiliates Team

**Jambo** · 30 January 2020, 11:20 am

Unfortunately almost nobody respect any deals made in the past. It is very sad how bad so many affiliate programs behave ):

**PromoteCasino** · 30 January 2020, 11:24 am

Not having a good week @FictionNet

They should be made to at least buy your account from you with say an average of 6-12 months income.

Still thievery but at least it would lesson the blow.

**FictionNet** · 30 January 2020, 11:29 am

Originally Posted by Jambo

Unfortunately almost nobody respect any deals made in the past. It is very sad how bad so many affiliate programs behave ):

Agreed. I used to have a great relationship with 32Red, with offers of trips to their sponsored sporting events and other stuff. Now they're just junk. It's not the casino it used to be anyway, and I wouldn't personally play there so we've been recommending other brands on our 32 Red pages. Now it'll be upgraded to a full blacklist. Handy that it happened same day as Energy - saves me a job!

Fortunately, we had lots of chats about this last year and we are prepared. Moved much of our concentration of coverage around to protect ourselves and it's only the crappy ones that are pulling our accounts. Some are stealing money, such as 32 Red/Kindred, but it hasn't touched our income (which is up) because we predicted so much of this last year. Might sound cocky, but we got it 100% spot-on so far with our predictions and it'll actually mean I can make some money from the 32 Red traffic I receive (which is a lot). If they'd just left the account as is, that traffic would continue to head their way - which they haven't converted, whereas now we'll be generating new sign-ups at already predetermined casinos.

**FictionNet** · 30 January 2020, 11:32 am

Originally Posted by PromoteCasino

Not having a good week @FictionNet

.

Heh, on the face of it, it looks that way but it's really going to be no skin off our noses. We replaced their income already

**Strider1973** · 30 January 2020, 1:20 pm

Why didn't you just send them one player every few months?

**FictionNet** · 30 January 2020, 1:25 pm

1. I'm not being held to ransom. It's my business and it wasn't the deal we originally agreed on.
2. They received plenty of traffic. They even got some sign-ups. They just didn't convert them.
3. I'm glad to see the back of them.

**celena** · 2 February 2020, 4:02 am

Since the integration of 32Red on Kindred, it's been a disaster!

**FictionNet** · 2 February 2020, 5:11 am

Originally Posted by celena

Since the integration of 32Red on Kindred, it's been a disaster!

We sent a mailer to thousands of subscribers advising them to close their account and advised of the behind-the-scenes wrong doings.

**FictionNet** · 2 February 2020, 1:32 pm

Update: FictionNet is a happy bunny. In only two/three days of redirecting my 32 Red traffic, it has generated more sign-ups and depositors than 32 Red managed in the last six months. Traffic to 32 Red is truely a complete waste.

**markoo** · 2 February 2020, 6:34 pm

Any experience with Unibet (they are another brand of Kindred Affiliates)? Are they converting same bad as 32Red?

**Sherlock** · 2 February 2020, 9:14 pm

unibet converts very well

**DanHorvat** · 3 February 2020, 8:11 am

And this is news how exactly? Because you thought it wouldn't happen to you?

**FictionNet** · 3 February 2020, 9:29 am

Originally Posted by DanHorvat

And this is news how exactly? Because you thought it wouldn't happen to you?

Is that directed at me?

**DanHorvat** · 4 February 2020, 6:55 am

Originally Posted by FictionNet

Is that directed at me?

Yes.

You knew they're rogue af.

**FictionNet** · 4 February 2020, 7:02 am

Thanks, Dan. You're a real nice person to take the time to post and undermine other members in threads that you have no interest in.

Back to your agency.

**Sherlock** · 4 February 2020, 9:08 am

I do not intend to offend anyone. The bottom line is that state of affiliate industry is total ****, we all probably feel something is way off. Not just with this niche but overall with digital economy and reality. It is indeed a frustrating experience.

Still there are people who try to swim and avoid total drowning.

People have different strategies, because their situations are way different. There are newbies and veterans with experiences and with a lot of people from the past on revenue share. There are rich guys and poor guys [this does not necessarily match the rookie/veteran status] (again I do not have second thinking here, but it completely blew my mind that owner/long term employee of this forum does not have money for spinal surgery). There are people who operate on ok markets, where robbery is not still ok vs. sh1t markets. There are people with employees and without employees. There are people who have large bet365 income from closed account vs. people who do not have such experience. There are people who feed families and there are teenagers. And there are people who have other businesses or those who get money only from affiliate marketing.

We can assume that by ultimate survivors the strategy chosen in rogue environment is something that makes sense. What might help is to try to understand each other, maybe?

For me fortunately the money from affiliate marketing are not significant, because of the crypto investments. However I am still here to learn some things. Still I play the game for not so trivial money. And I am more and more in situation where while responding an email I am exactly at the "binar edge". I can either respond to affiliate manager playing some **** "fo you madafaka and die in hell you loser and thief" and forget the money or I can respond politely and try for one more round as a hooker of age. So I can understand both approaches: people who try to play the game to the bitter end and people who want to save some energy. It is just a proposal that we might maybe understand each other. After all that might be the only thing we can gain from the last period of affiliate marketing.

**Former Member 14** · 4 February 2020, 11:07 am

Originally Posted by FictionNet

Agreed. I used to have a great relationship with 32Red, with offers of trips to their sponsored sporting events and other stuff. Now they're just junk. It's not the casino it used to be anyway, and I wouldn't personally play there so we've been recommending other brands on our 32 Red pages. Now it'll be upgraded to a full blacklist.

Ed Ware (CEO) commence 32Red in Oct 2002, and with Pat Harrison the Operations Manager (made a Director a couple of years later). Mark Quayle joined the team, and was the aff manager (he too made Director of Marketing after a few years). These guys knew how to operate an online casino.

No pathetic withdrawal limits (whatever you won was paid within 24 hours or less)
7/364 (not sure about Christmas Day) 2x daily payments to wallets.
Dedicated VIP support desk, staff actually knew your name, and genuinely were interested in you, aside from gambling.
Ed Ware, along with other Directors actually listed their direct email addresses on the site, an openly invited anyone to contact them. They also listed their actual company address and Gibraltar phone number too.
Player loyalty at 32Red meant something. Instead of like most casinos today, who are so short sighted.

These days, most casinos seem to employee VIP hosts in their 20's (millenniums) with no real-life experience. It's no wonder they seem to have a habit of insulting loyalty with p#ss-poor 'goodwill'. EG - 40 free spins @ $0.15 per spin (with a 20x wagering on winnings...lol).

What idiot wrapped in a moron gives that to a VIP High Roller??? I'm a VIP HR, and believe me, it happens more often than you'd think

When 32Red Plc did that deal with GoWild, to purchase all their UK players, and redirect all ongoing UK players to 32Red, that was a sign that things had changed. Affiliates who 32Red once treated well, like their players, were now hung out to dry per se. The re-mapping of players from GoWild didn't go well. The tagging from GoWild wasn't being carried over to 32Red. Hence, players that should have been tagged, were not. Mark dodged, twisted and turned, but the facts were the facts.

A lot of things changed then too. Withdrawals only on business-days, no flushing. Then, withdrawals had to be in by 3pm Thursday or you didn't get paid till Monday, or if that was bank-holiday, the following day. The 1'st Easter was a nightmare.

The change of status quo with the withdrawals, I can now state, came about from MGS arranging a summit of MGS casino owners, who all met up in Durban. According to my inside source at the time, the topic of how to reduce weekend payments was part of the discussion. The rub to this... 32Red decided to yank weekend withdrawals because it would save them approx 25% of weekend withdrawal payments, if they stopped weekend withdrawals.

When that went down, it was pretty clear 32Red Plc had an agenda at hand. Which we realised now, was them preparing for sale.

---------

I'm sure Kindred would have still purchased 32Red Plc, even if, in the sale agreement, it included a clause(s) about past affiliate agreements.

Ed Ware AFAIK walked away with 60Mil GBP on the sale. 32Red, and later, their other casinos etc., reached these outstanding heights because of their affiliates. It still saddens me to know, in the end, the original 32Red Plc Directors, threw US ALL under the bus...

**justbookies** · 4 February 2020, 4:42 pm

Most long-term affiliates will probably have ended up with three or four affiliate accounts on the Kindred affiliates platform. For instance, I ended up with Unibet, 32Red and another Unibet one that was old Stan James referrals. There was a fourth one too, that they merged into one of the others. They wouldn't merge all the accounts into one because they couldn't be bothered by the time I was asking for it. Maybe by then they knew treating each affiliate account individually would mean a couple would fall below quotas, even though the main one was doing fine.

I am glad that some affiliates are still making money with Unibet. My view of Kindred affiliates is that they used to be managed quite well (when Unibet affiliates). That was a long time ago. Now the AMs are unhelpful and incompetent. They are so lazy they just rush to reduce commissions and so reduce their own workload.

Of course it is not the fault of the AMs, it is the fault of the head of affiliates. He is single-handedly running the affiliate program into the ground with a management style that is best described as slothful. Just take the path of least resistance and hope nobody notices the damage done to the brands. Maybe this indolence has been encouraged from board level, as the best way to steal from and pillage affiliates. My view, the head of affiliates is a liability who should be sacked.

**Strutt** · 13 March 2020, 2:50 pm

I worked for Unibet full time, for 1-2 years, as their exclusive UK Affiliate Media Buying Partner.

I did not get paid anything for those 40 hours a week, in those 1-2 years.

I got no holiday pay, or no sick pay either - which I believe was my legal entitlement, as per UK employment law.

I completed this work on the basis - that I would get paid a revenue share later down the line, when certain performance KPIs kicked in.

Those KPIs took affect, and then I started to earn some pay for my 1-2 years hard, full-time work.

Having delivered 1,000s of FTDs and ?0,000's in profit for my work - their affiliate team now wants to remove my commission completely apparently.

This is despite the fact that I have a separate signed contract from Unibet for this deal, signed at a level way above the affiliate team.
I also have over 100 email and Skype conversations relating to this deal with comments such as "this deal will be your pension fund" and "don't worry about not getting paid yet mate, you are going to earn so much money from this deal its unreal" and 10s of emails with firm promises of "lifetime revenue share".

In my opinion they have become greedy, and they seem to have become completely happy to essentially shaft their partners.
This is a shame, as they used to have one of the most honest teams of staff in the business, from my experience.

Perhaps its the board trying to make their shareholders more money at our expense.
Or perhaps their head of affiliates just needs to be sacked as suggested because they are driving this.

I aim to take these guys to court over this if they do decide to pull the trigger on shafting me, and I will also aim to speak to some more senior individuals to establish whether this is a board decision, or a decision by the affiliate team.

I will of course keep you guys updated on the situation.

Justbookies - I will do my best to ensure their head of affiliates is summoned to court and properly cross-examined if it comes to it

Thread: Heh - now KINDRED/32 RED closing accounts!

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Heh - now KINDRED/32 RED closing accounts!

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