Great news for those of you who are NOT coming to LAC!

**Sportster_Alex** · 6 February 2017, 11:29 am

Hi there,

Despite an enormous buzz around LAC and ICE this year I have finally decided to skip the conferences this time. And I know that some of you are missing the event too. Well, it's a pity, as there are going to be tons of souvenirs and free drinks... But someone has to work, ha?

For those of you who are not coming or simply prefer to stay away from the crowded places, I'm giving 1-month 80% revenue share plan. Sign up to Spilmates until the 28th of February to enroll. The 1-month countdown starts from the moment you bring your first NDC. So even if you sign up now as an affiliate, your offer will be activated from the day when one of the customers referred by you will decide to make his first deposit.

Oh, by the way, you can choose 3-months 50% revenue share plan instead. I know there are people who don't like to rush things

Sign up now and you will be the first to know about our next product which is due to be launched in March. Some pleasant surprise will wait for you there, for sure

**wonderpunter** · 7 February 2017, 2:14 am

Here we go again... stop trying to fool affiliates with this 80% wonder deal.. just tell the true revshare "most likely 8-10%" these big numbers don't fool anyone these days

**Sportster_Alex** · 13 February 2017, 6:11 am

Originally Posted by wonderpunter

Here we go again... stop trying to fool affiliates with this 80% wonder deal.. just tell the true revshare "most likely 8-10%" these big numbers don't fool anyone these days

Are you totally sure about this statement? You decide to judge without even looking, as I can see. I have told in other posts, we don't have hidden admin fees you are probably talking about. And the true revshare will be most likely 80%. I will gladly discuss all the calculation with you and anyone else interested in proving it.

With all the respect to you as one of the most active and experienced forum members, stop putting your seal of disapproval on any new offer you find. Most likely you will be pleasantly surprised.

**wonderpunter** · 13 February 2017, 6:44 am

Originally Posted by Sportster_Alex

Are you totally sure about this statement? You decide to judge without even looking, as I can see. I have told in other posts, we don't have hidden admin fees you are probably talking about. And the true revshare will be most likely 80%. I will gladly discuss all the calculation with you and anyone else interested in proving it.

With all the respect to you as one of the most active and experienced forum members, stop putting your seal of disapproval on any new offer you find. Most likely you will be pleasantly surprised.

?
No hidden admin fee's ok player deposits €100 loses €100 had a free €50 bonus which could not be played through.. our end €80? right? or is it non hidden admin fee, minus bonus minus etc cost revshare = €25 as this seems to be the norm right now .. unless you work with US sportsbooks then that would be typical earnings

**Sportster_Alex** · 13 February 2017, 10:35 am

NGR = GGR - Bonus Costs
Deposit costs = €0
Admin fees = €0
Your commission = NGR*80%, in this particular case.
So in your case you will get €80*0.8 = €64 commission.

I'm sorry about your negative experience with other partners. But your statement here is a bit baseless, don't you think? Hard to believe in what I'm offering? Don't try it yourself

But don't mislead other members.

**wonderpunter** · 13 February 2017, 10:44 am

Originally Posted by Sportster_Alex

NGR = GGR - Bonus Costs
Deposit costs = €0
Admin fees = €0
Your commission = NGR*80%, in this particular case.
So in your case you will get €80*0.8 = €64 commission.

I'm sorry about your negative experience with other partners. But your statement here is a bit baseless, don't you think? Hard to believe in what I'm offering? Don't try it yourself

But don't mislead other members.

It's not baseless at all.. it is probably the most truthful statement on this thread,., High % numbers thrown out to give the impression affiliate is getting a great deal... NGR = GGR - Bonus Costs how much is this? important figure.. what is the gross gaming revenue? and why am i paying bonus costs on monopoly money that has not been cashed out?

how did you get to €64 when you have not given the % of GGR and Bonus Costs?

**Sportster_Alex** · 13 February 2017, 12:44 pm

Let's start from the very basis then. Let's assume that:

The user has made one €20 deposit and took 100% 1st deposit bonus + 100 free spins. He played with the match bonus and lost, then he generated €10 winnings from free spins and lost them as well. Let's see how the revenue is being calculated:
Bonus costs = Bonus money granted to the player + winnings from the bonus money (if took place). Those are actually monopoly money we give away to the players. But they are being calculated in an overall wager. So just keep it in mind now.
So, in our case Bonus Costs = €20 + €10 = €30 (total "monopoly money" received by the player)
Total Bet = €250
Total Win = €200
GGR = Total Bet - Total Win = 250-200 = €50 - wow, did we just earn €50 from a guy who have deposited only €20? It's a miracle! Well, actually we haven't. Becasue here where the Bonus Costs come back!
NGR = GGR - Bonus Costs = €50 - €30 = €20
Revenue share = NGR * 80% = €20 * 0.8 = €16

Wait, is this even possible? But Wonderpunter just told us we will get 8%, or €1.6 commission. Maybe we are talking about the US sportsbook? Oh, no, see, it's just a typical Scandic casino covered by MGA license. How comes? Maybe wonderpunter was just a bit too strict in his judgment then?! But he keeps claiming that his statements are "the most truthful"... So where is the truth?

Well, I have an answer here, too. We don't hide any important data from our affiliates. All the revenues may be checked by the affiliates themselves. Here are the numbers you can easily find in the simple Sales report, one of those we provide for ALL affiliate WITHOUT hidden fees or extra requests:
- Player system ID
- Username
- Country
- Reg Date
- Dep Count
- Dep Sum (€)
- Bet Sum (€)
- Win Sum (€)
- GGR (€)
- Bonus costs (€)
- Chargebacks (€), if applied you will find it in this column, no additional request needed from your side,
- Corrections (€), if applied you will find it in this column, no additional request needed from your side,
- Deposit Costs (€), we don't charge any costs from affiliates, nevertheless we pay the processing fees,
- Net revenue (€), calculated by the formula above,
- Commission (€), according to the affiliate's plan.

The stats are being updated in real time. The only "bad" thing here is all the financial transactions (deposits, withdrawals) are being updated once in 24 hours only. But we are currently working on improvements. And any of our affiliates can request the real-time stats, we will easily share.

Wonderpunter, you don't have to pay any hidden fees or bonus costs for so-called "monopoly money". The only thing you should really do is to bring the players and we'll earn money together. But you keep fighting with the windmills here, and with all respect, I'm not your Sancho Panza

**wonderpunter** · 13 February 2017, 2:10 pm

Gotta love the Sarcastic attitude I'm sure people on this board can't wait to work with you

Ok so you claim there are no hidden fee's or extras.. I never claimed we make a profit from the bonus money however quite a few casinos have been laying on extra credit bonuses then taking them straight from the Affiliates cut although the casino has only profited. When something sounds too good to be true......

Which brings me to your T&C... you can word however you like and show whatever formula you wish here, real earnings is what counts.. My suspicions are by what's the norm when programs offer 80% deals of revshare but only talk about net.. Gross is where all the hits take place but thats ok because you used the net right? it's the only thing that counts.. and by the way you have worded the above you have made it sound that Gross Gaming doesnt even come into play.. because a player can deposit 1000 but his net can be 250 after the pie has been sliced with the legal T&C's .. but the way you wrote above is misleading... why not write a typical scenario of say $1000 deposit GGR = Net = Real comss,,, doesn0t sound like 80% now I'm sure?

Below are what has to be taken into account before net is achieved .. vii means you can slap any old number down.. what should of been a short answer has now turned into a long winded thread.. I repeat these claims of 80% "read terms & conditions" are not fooling anyone.

[COLOR=rgba(34, 39, 35, 0.

](i) winnings, (ii) bonuses, (iii) chargebacks, (iv) third party licensing fees, (v) jackpot insurance contributions, (vi) duties and taxes, and (vii) any other cost

[/COLOR]

**Sportster_Alex** · 13 February 2017, 2:37 pm

Wonderpunter, I can write as many typical examples as you wish. The result will be the same - any affiliate signing up to our program will get the revenue he deserves. And I will personally make sure that every affiliate working with us has an answer to all questions, without any "black holes" on his balance

But let's leave imaginary examples and get straight to the point.

I understand your suspicions. 80% revenue share looks too good. But it's my sole decision. The reason is simple. I want to attract more affiliates. I can spend the budget for some cool banner ads on top with a promising 'NO negative carry over' thing to bring more affiliates in. Or I can spend an enormous amount of money and build a huge stand in the middle of London, attracting affiliates with free beer and booby dolls... Or I can waste this money any other way which will make it look like I'm truly interested in working with you. But wait, why should I if I can share this money with you, or any other affiliate directly? I think you would agree that the "revenue share" term is based on actually... sharing the revenue

So what's bad in sharing 80% to affiliates within the first month, instead of wasting them on the box of souvenirs?

That is why I'm offering 80% commission this month. I have saved a huge amount of money by not attending the conference and I decided to share it with you, members of GPWA, cause I respect this place more than any other thematic forums or blogs. I could make fixed cash reward system to make it clear but I simply see NO reason for that!

Why should I give €1,000 prize to the person who brings more NDC's if he or she can earn €10,000-20,000? And trust me, all of us will be satisfied. I think that's how the real partnership may start, not with a branded lighter

**Triple7** · 14 February 2017, 3:30 am

Originally Posted by wonderpunter

why am i paying bonus costs on monopoly money that has not been cashed out?

I agree with many points of you about excessive offers of 80%, but at this point not. The fact that a bonus is not cashed out, does not mean there are no costs. The revenue (21%) to the slot provider still has to be paid. That's 21%. With a bonus doubling your deposit, you actually have double the revenue share that Spilleren has to pay to NetEnt.

But, of course, by offering 80%, they're not solving the problem of not having standards and lack of transparency in this industry. Actually that is provoked by this kind of commissions.

**Sportster_Alex** · 17 February 2017, 4:26 pm

Originally Posted by Triple7

The revenue (21%) to the slot provider still has to be paid. That's 21%. With a bonus doubling your deposit, you actually have double the revenue share that Spilleren has to pay to NetEnt.

Triple7, you are totally right about this percentage. And most of the operators deduct it from the revenue before calculating affiliates commissions.

But the thing is we are not doing so. We decided to take those expenses on our own and let affiliates earn more. I read the other thread of wonderpunter describing the issue with unfair revenues. And I totally agree with him. But here is the funny thing - I come with a fair solution trying to bring some balance and he doesn't trust me

Well, I can simply explain my decision:

1. When we have more affiliates, we earn more money overall, I hope everyone understands that.
2. 80% commission is offered as a 1-month promo only. I'm ready to pay you more than we earn within 1 month period if you start working with us, does it sound logical?
3. Consider that we also get traffic from other sources and it's totally okay for me to pay a bit more for affiliates - in the end, our total revenue grows. Plus affiliates give a good exposure to our new brand

4. Once again, I can waste money on ads and banners or I can put it directly into affiliates pockets. What would you choose?

What kind of standards would you like to apply? Let's get deeper here. You think I'm provoking someone with such a commission? Please explain. As I explained before, this is a real 80% commission we offer and I see no provocation here. It's just a good offer, no skeletons in the closet. So once again, please try not to put the final verdict before you now all facts.

**Triple7** · 17 February 2017, 4:50 pm

In my ideal fantasy world, it would be easy to compare commissions. Hence, everybody is using the same calculation method with just deducting realistic and real costs of gaming revenue and everything is transparent. That means gaming revenue minus gaming costs that do exist, like bonus costs, gaming tax, transaction fee at.

Now it's comparing apples and oranges, because many programs are calculating in a very different way. I'd better take somewhere 25% with bonus costs and transaction costs deducted instead of somewhere else taking 50%, but with besides bonus and transactions costs also admin fees, gaming fees, costs, etc. Or even deducted the whole bonus amount, what also is happening at some programs.

So far my fantasy world.

In reality, affiliate programs try to compete with %. It's like a rat race. At LAC I've had even programs offering 100%. I am talking in general and not specifically about Spilleren, but I see programs that are increasing the % but also in the backend are increasing the costs and fees they deduct. That's a bit my point. I prefer transparency instead of a rat race who offers the highest %.

However, I do understand that in reality, you take a loss on the first month to try to get affiliates on board. As a new brand you have to do something to conquer your space at websites where usually are brands with who webmasters are working for years. Same thing for players. Casinos are not winning at somebody taking € 20 bonus and 250 free spins on a € 10 deposit. It's just to get them in. Same thing with the affiliates. Taking a loss is no problem at all if retention is well.

But I hope you do get my point, which was a point in general and not about your program.

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