APCW Perspectives Friday 01/17/09

**Anthony** · 17 January 2009, 10:31 am

Online gambling news from Google UK, and what US poker players should be doing right now! Plus, how do the pieces of the Cardspike puzzle fit together?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1jH-iAVXTI

**pgaming** · 17 January 2009, 10:38 am

A definite conflict of interest.

Thanks for the update.

greek39

**DaftDog** · 17 January 2009, 11:28 am

Geez, talk about flogging a dead horse.

**Integrity** · 17 January 2009, 3:46 pm

Originally Posted by Ixian

Geez, talk about flogging a dead horse.

Possibly one of the most important and misunderstood stories in our industry right now, and we get comments like this.

Perhaps he should forward us his selections for the top news stories each week, and we can take those into consideration.

**Steve_S** · 17 January 2009, 10:42 pm

J. Todd:

Thank you for shining a spotlight on this mess. How people can defend, ignore or make excuses for this kind of unethical behavior and blatant conflict of interest is beyond me. Please continue your investigation into these very important issues. I, for one, applaud your efforts.

**DaftDog** · 17 January 2009, 11:30 pm

Originally Posted by Integrity

Possibly one of the most important and misunderstood stories in our industry right now, and we get comments like this.

Perhaps he should forward us his selections for the top news stories each week, and we can take those into consideration.

By the looks of things it seems like I should start preparing that list.

Most of the industry knows that this is a personal vendetta between you and CAP.

Just remember that when you point a finger at somebody there are three fingers pointing back at you.

**mojo** · 18 January 2009, 6:36 am

Most of the industry knows that this is a personal vendetta between you and CAP.

Personal issues aside, many of us are seeing a clear conflict of interest and lack of disclosure by cap where cardspike is concerned.

**GamTrak** · 18 January 2009, 7:57 am

Originally Posted by Steve_S

How people can defend, ignore or make excuses for this kind of unethical behavior and blatant conflict of interest is beyond me.

No one is insulting your personal intelligence or ethics for believeing the orignal story of 'ownership' so please don't do it to us.

**Integrity** · 18 January 2009, 7:12 pm

Originally Posted by Ixian

By the looks of things it seems like I should start preparing that list.

Then please do. After all, you've already added so many facts to this debate I'm certain you can clear everything up for the industry in short order. Tell us all the facts you have tucked away and get us back on track, please.

Originally Posted by Ixian

Most of the industry knows that this is a personal vendetta between you and CAP.

That's quite possibly the most ignorant statement of this entire matter. There are absolutely no "vendettas" on my side toward CAP, and as far as Lou and Warren go this is just standard business proceedures, not a vendetta. You're simply repeating "hot button" words you've heard used on 'other' boards to distract people from the truth. Nice try.

Lou has banned countless people at CAP and PAP who only question them or disrupted the flow of the gravy train. They extort rediculous sums of cash from programs. They are the most litigious people in the industry. And they bully, threaten, and have ripped off almost every "idea" they currently promote as their own.

You're interested in the truth? Try asking yourself why so many people in all walks of this industry keep saying the same negative things about how Lou conducts business and treats people. Are they all wrong? Lemme guess, they all have a some misplaced personal "vendetta" against poor Lou and Warren who have never done a thing to bring this on themselves and are just the innocent victims over and over again. Wake up.

How many professional deals have you had with these guys involving money behind closed doors?

How would you have any first-hand knowledge of what you're now trying to debate, as if you are privy to something all the rest of us missed?

You really think this is all about people "out to get" Lou and Warren after we've proven that Warren deliberatly mislead us with his statements?

You think it's all made-up facts when you see the documentation and then Warren admits they have a profit interest in this company?

Do you think we're fabricating the fact that this is a complete violation of trust and a conflict of interest, too?

You see all the facts and you still drink the cool-aid.

Originally Posted by Ixian

Just remember that when you point a finger at somebody there are three fingers pointing back at you.

You can point whatever you want at me. I expect you to. Why? Because that's what the guilty do to defend themselves, and what Lou and Warren have done since we starting investigating Cardspike: Go on the attack to distract everyone from the facts, then play the victim.

Lou tried this when he went tottaly nutts over his public address being shown publicly... that didn't work.

Warren tried this same tactic when he called us Nazis and insulted an entire race... that didn't work.

Now it's your turn to try by chalking up all the non-debateable facts we have shown you to a personal "vendetta"... that won't work either.

Where were you and your white horse when Lou and Warren were caught making false statements, calling names, labelling us Nazis, and insulting a race of people? Where were your "vendetta" comments in our defense? Somehow, I suspect you can twist things to hold us responsible for all of their inexcusable behavior as well.

We need a little less "Pinkey" and a little more "Brain".

================================================== =====

Originally Posted by GamTrak

No one is insulting your personal intelligence or ethics for believeing the orignal story of 'ownership' so please don't do it to us.

Robin, you know I love you, but there is so much you don't know and we can't say just yet. I appreciate your delicate position and i hope you understand ours.

To be fair, the orginal story about CAP possibly owning Cardspike was reported by Gambling 911. The APCW simply investigated and asked questions about that serious accusation.

Lou and Warren never said a word about the story until we pushed, then they flat denied all connections until we showed a connection.

Lou and Warren eventually admitted that a connection existed, but claimed they had no profit interest in Cardspike until we showed they did.

Are you noticing a pattern here? If we didin't follow the trail on this, you would know nothing about how CAP is tied into Cardspike... would that be better for everyone?

Are you for open, honest, and transparant business practices in this industry? Do you believe Warren and Lou have been open, honest, and transparant about this issue?

Let's have a beer in London.

**Puma** · 18 January 2009, 7:51 pm

I have watched J.Todd for along time and appreciate all his videos and his inside scoop. As a small affiliate I really dont understand how or why all this matters. Who cares who works where with whom ect. Unless its causing commissions to get reduced that who gives a ****. Watching all this drama for the past year or so is so crazy. If you are at CAP and GPWA like I am then fine. If you like one better than the other fine. If you dont like either fine. Just keep your thoughts to yourself and we will all be fine. Some of you are letting things get to you instead of enjoying things. If all you do each day is get pissed off because of various concerns in the industry than this is not the job for you.

**Integrity** · 18 January 2009, 8:12 pm

Originally Posted by pumacat

...I really dont understand how or why all this matters. Who cares who works where with whom ect.

If you learned that CAP ran the Grand Prive' affiliate program, would that matter?

If you learned Casinomeister was running Gambling Wages, would that matter?

If it was discovered that APCW and GPWA employed the affiliate manager at Crystal Palace, what would you say?

Cardspike was a rogue program from September 2008 and screwed players and webmasters until Gambling 911 broke a story and we investigated. Then and only then did players and affiliates get paid from Cardspike... and who manages their program?

Good lord, people, this is not rocket science... but it is typical CAP shuck-and-jive to take all the attention away from their outright misrepresentation of their conflict of interest that screwed so many affiliates and players for so long...

...but please do keep defending them.

Originally Posted by pumacat

...Some of you are letting things get to you instead of enjoying things. If all you do each day is get pissed off because of various concerns in the industry than this is not the job for you.

Now you understand why I almost never post a thing anymore. It's a complete waste of time.

**arkyt** · 18 January 2009, 8:39 pm

Ignorance is truly bliss, but over the last few years that simply can not be the case because so much of the BS has been brought to light!

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me - there comes a point in time when you have to step back and make a conscious decision to acknowledge the wrong doings. You then have to make an educated choice to either ignore the wrong doings or disassociate yourself with those who are doing the wrong. Frankly if you are consistently choosing the former you deserve to stew in the same crap pot as the wrong-doers themselves!

**Fergie** · 18 January 2009, 10:26 pm

Originally Posted by Ixian

Most of the industry knows that this is a personal vendetta between you and CAP.

Senseless accusations of "personal vendetta's" [against CAP] are meaningless in the face of all we have learned about Lou and Warren's business dealings.

Most of the industry is aware of that.

**matted** · 18 January 2009, 10:33 pm

Maybe the next installment should point out why it is important and how there is a huge conflict of interest going on. It seems like everyone doesn't understand why this is bad bad bad.

At GPWA, private members must NOT be working for the casinos (as affiliate managers or other ops jobs) because there is a clear conflict of interest just having access to the "inner thoughts" of affiliates that sometimes occurs in the private area. Here, not only do you have affiliates, but the OWNERS of the affiliate group are acting as agents for the casino. While GPWA and CAP have very different remits to affiliates, I do not see how they can act as an independent affiliate watchdog if they have financial interests in the marketing arm of select casinos.

**mojo** · 18 January 2009, 10:34 pm

Originally Posted by Fergie

Senseless accusations of "personal vendetta's" [against CAP] are meaningless in the face of all we have learned about Lou and Warren's business dealings.

Most of the industry is aware of that.

The 'personal vendetta' and 'lack of proof' cards have gotten old. Thank you APCW for taking on this very tough, but VERY important issue that effects every single one of us.

**Puma** · 19 January 2009, 12:32 am

If you learned that CAP ran the Grand Prive' affiliate program, would that matter?

If you learned Casinomeister was running Gambling Wages, would that matter?

If it was discovered that APCW and GPWA employed the affiliate manager at Crystal Palace, what would you say?

I would say I knew grand prive group sucked 3 years ago

I dont care who runs gambling wages cause they suck and many of us know it.

APCW and GPWA can run any program they want as long as they follow the rules and pay their affiliates ( IMO )

Please dont think my post was just about you mr J Todd, I watch your show all the time and think you are great. You should actually post more.
Im simply saying that this buisness is becoming a chore and is not even close to the amount of fun it was 5 years ago. people are such drama queens at times ( including me of course ) and its bringing alot of affiliates down about this buisness. Its a job yes, but why is everybody fighting all the time? Like I said, im a small affiliate so i dont know all the details but its getting out of hand.

**Integrity** · 19 January 2009, 1:33 am

Originally Posted by pumacat

I would say I knew grand prive group sucked 3 years ago

I dont care who runs gambling wages cause they suck and many of us know it.

APCW and GPWA can run any program they want as long as they follow the rules and pay their affiliates

Pumacat, I am not upset by your post, other than the fact that I don't think you realize the importance of the issue. It would be a very very big deal if APCW or GPWA or Casinomeister made a profit based off of the performance of a rogue affiliate program... especially while operating under the pretense of serving in the interest of affiliates.

Add to this the fact that Lou and Warren banned affiliates who asked questions, kept Cardspike as a "certified" partner for 4 months, and tried to hide their connection to this site over and over again. How can affiliates ever trust them again?

Add to this the fact that other affiliate programs are paying HUGE sums of money every quarter for "Certification" which has not only been tainted by this, but the money they paid for that certification was used to fund their competition.

This is discusting.

**Puma** · 19 January 2009, 2:31 am

It would be a very very big deal if APCW or GPWA or Casinomeister made a profit based off of the performance of a rogue affiliate program

Agreed, after my post I did about an hour of research. My original statement on how sucky the business is getting still applies. I did not even know that programs paid for the certificates they have on their sites.

But we all know the little certificates casinos and affiliate programs have on their websites dont mean much these days. Too many burnt players and burnt affiliates. We have all seen fancy badges on their pages only to find out later it was just that...a fancy shiny badge of bullshit.

**Anti-Corruption** · 19 January 2009, 2:49 am

Originally Posted by Integrity

realize the importance of the issue

First off, J., I want to thank you for what you have been doing. Some of us out here definitely realize the enormous importance and significance of this issue. This is a bombshell industry scandal meriting no less than a "-gate" appended to it. After seeing various reports here and there* I finally decided to look for the video(s) and have just been watching some of them, especially the most recent perspectives Tuesday and Friday. As far as I'm concerned keep up the great work, and don't ever sell out. What you have been doing is exactly what the industry needs.

*Like this latest one (my account can't post links yet): http: // www . onlinecasinoadvisory.com/casino-news/online/cap-scandal-becomes-clearer-42481.htm

**DaftDog** · 19 January 2009, 3:15 am

Originally Posted by Integrity

Then please do. After all, you've already added so many facts to this debate I'm certain you can clear everything up for the industry in short order. Tell us all the facts you have tucked away and get us back on track, please.

Should I send it via pm or is there particular email address I should send it to?

That's quite possibly the most ignorant statement of this entire matter. There are absolutely no "vendettas" on my side toward CAP, and as far as Lou and Warren go this is just standard business proceedures, not a vendetta. You're simply repeating "hot button" words you've heard used on 'other' boards to distract people from the truth. Nice try.

I only read two forums, GPWA and CAP, so my thoughts are my own. I don't regurgitate other peoples words. Yes, IMO, I do feel you have a vendetta towards CAP. The tone of your replies clearly indicates that. So much for professional reporting.

They extort rediculous sums of cash from programs. They are the most litigious people in the industry. And they bully, threaten, and have ripped off almost every "idea" they currently promote as their own.

I'm sure all the programs at CAP would not put up with being "extorted". They, like you and me, have choices and they choose to be listed at CAP.

You're interested in the truth? Try asking yourself why so many people in all walks of this industry keep saying the same negative things about how Lou conducts business and treats people. Are they all wrong? Lemme guess, they all have a some misplaced personal "vendetta" against poor Lou and Warren who have never done a thing to bring this on themselves and are just the innocent victims over and over again. Wake up.

It's people like you who would like promote this idea and for some reason are afraid of CAP's success.

You think it's all made-up facts when you see the documentation and then Warren admits they have a profit interest in this company?

Do you think we're fabricating the fact that this is a complete violation of trust and a conflict of interest, too?

You are making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

You see all the facts and you still drink the cool-aid.

I prefer a good whisky actually.

We need a little less "Pinkey" and a little more "Brain".

Talk about insults, you do quite well at the insults yourself.

Thread: APCW Perspectives Friday 01/17/09

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

APCW Perspectives Friday 01/17/09

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Anthony For This Useful Post:

The Following User Says Thank You to pgaming For This Useful Post:

Short of news?

The Following User Says Thank You to Steve_S For This Useful Post:

The Following User Says Thank You to Integrity For This Useful Post:

The Following User Says Thank You to Puma For This Useful Post:

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Integrity For This Useful Post:

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to arkyt For This Useful Post:

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fergie For This Useful Post:

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to matted For This Useful Post:

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mojo For This Useful Post:

The Following User Says Thank You to Puma For This Useful Post:

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Integrity For This Useful Post:

Lol

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions